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Matt
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Registered: Apr 2002
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Location: Surrey
2016 | Honourable Mention
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At the risk of saying "told you so", Junker has laid out plans for The United States of Europe.
Plenty of headline coverage from anti-EU media, Mail, Express and Telegraph but let's avoid those banging drums and try to find more measured reporting...
BBC carried it fairly prominently:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41251914
Quote:
| He told the European Parliament there was a "window of opportunity" to build a stronger, more united union - but it "wouldn't stay open forever".
He called for a summit in Romania on 30 March 2019 for decisions to be taken on a "more united, stronger and democratic Europe".
He sternly reminded member states that final jurisdiction in the union belonged to the European Court of Justice, and said the rule of law was not optional. That might have been a tacit reference to countries such as Poland, which have defied judicial decisions from the EU on a number of issues.
He suggested his own role of Commission president should be merged with that of the Council president, and elected following a "pan-European campaign".
The Commission leader also proposed the creation of a Europe-wide finance minister, enabling deeper integration of the eurozone. |
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Funny the report singles out Poland which defied judicial decisions, when I was under the impression this was common practice in France, Spain, Italy et al. The UK has/had a long record of adhering to judicial rulings, as I believe does Germany.
Looking elsewhere, I had to scour The Guardian site to find the report, lol
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/13/jean-claude-juncker-plays-down-brexit-in-eu-state-of-union-speech
Quote:
| Calling for a special summit in Romania on the 30 March 2019, the first day of an EU of 27 member states rather than 28, Juncker said he hoped the continent would “wake up” that day to a new more unified bloc.
Juncker proposed more help for all EU countries to join the euro, so that it could be truly “the single currency of the European Union”, along with a wide range of institutional changes, including the creation of an EU finance minister and the widening of the Schengen area, in which passport-free travel is allowed.
In a call for the presidencies of the European commission and the European council, the body comprising the member states’ leaders, to be combined and directly elected in the future, Juncker said the EU needed to be more flexible and streamlined. “Europe would be easier to understand if one captain was steering the ship,” he said.
Juncker added that the council should adopt qualified majority voting, rather than unanimity, on foreign policy issues and drive forward in European defence. “By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.”
He also added the EU would establish a European cybersecurity agency. “Cyber-attacks know no borders and no one is immune,” he said.
A joint statement from the French, German and Italian governments following the speech endorsed the move. The German minister for economic affairs, Brigitte Zypries, said: “We must avoid other states benefiting from our opening to advance their own industrial policy interests.”
Juncker was also scathing about Poland’s recent judicial reforms, which have been criticised as an attack on the judiciary, although he did not mention the country by name. Brussels has threatened to trigger a process under which Poland could lose its voting rights in the council of ministers unless it rethinks a series of recent legislative reforms.
Juncker said: “The rule of law means that law and justice are upheld by an independent judiciary. Accepting and respecting a final judgment is what it means to be part of a union based on the rule of law.” |
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The first paragraph in The Guardian report confirms that Brexit would have happened anyway. IIRC the alternative to Cameron's referendum was a cast iron guarantee that any treaty seeking closer union would trigger a referendum in the UK. I can't see the people of the UK agreeing to the Euro, a single finance minister, EU army or closer union so that would have been an end.
This is probably chicken and egg, Junker would have never been so brave to propose these fundamental changes had the UK voted in, but it's clear this is the direction of travel and IMO ever closer union is essential for the EU to succeed.
This is what Germany and France want, it remains to be seen whether countries who are feeling the pinch of EU membership will be so keen, and some, like Poland and Denmark are strongly opposed.
We live in interesting times!
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 14-09-2017 11:23 AM |
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Quin.
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Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 33316 - Threads: 426
Location: london
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Quote:
| Matt wrote on 14-09-2017 11:23 AM
At the risk of saying "told you so", Junker has laid out plans for The United States of Europe.
Plenty of headline coverage from anti-EU media, Mail, Express and Telegraph but let's avoid those banging drums and try to find more measured reporting...
BBC carried it fairly prominently:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41251914
Quote:
| He told the European Parliament there was a "window of opportunity" to build a stronger, more united union - but it "wouldn't stay open forever".
He called for a summit in Romania on 30 March 2019 for decisions to be taken on a "more united, stronger and democratic Europe".
He sternly reminded member states that final jurisdiction in the union belonged to the European Court of Justice, and said the rule of law was not optional. That might have been a tacit reference to countries such as Poland, which have defied judicial decisions from the EU on a number of issues.
He suggested his own role of Commission president should be merged with that of the Council president, and elected following a "pan-European campaign".
The Commission leader also proposed the creation of a Europe-wide finance minister, enabling deeper integration of the eurozone. |
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Funny the report singles out Poland which defied judicial decisions, when I was under the impression this was common practice in France, Spain, Italy et al. The UK has/had a long record of adhering to judicial rulings, as I believe does Germany.
Looking elsewhere, I had to scour The Guardian site to find the report, lol
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/13/jean-claude-juncker-plays-down-brexit-in-eu-state-of-union-speech
Quote:
| Calling for a special summit in Romania on the 30 March 2019, the first day of an EU of 27 member states rather than 28, Juncker said he hoped the continent would “wake up” that day to a new more unified bloc.
Juncker proposed more help for all EU countries to join the euro, so that it could be truly “the single currency of the European Union”, along with a wide range of institutional changes, including the creation of an EU finance minister and the widening of the Schengen area, in which passport-free travel is allowed.
In a call for the presidencies of the European commission and the European council, the body comprising the member states’ leaders, to be combined and directly elected in the future, Juncker said the EU needed to be more flexible and streamlined. “Europe would be easier to understand if one captain was steering the ship,” he said.
Juncker added that the council should adopt qualified majority voting, rather than unanimity, on foreign policy issues and drive forward in European defence. “By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European defence union,” he said. “We need it. And Nato wants it.”
He also added the EU would establish a European cybersecurity agency. “Cyber-attacks know no borders and no one is immune,” he said.
A joint statement from the French, German and Italian governments following the speech endorsed the move. The German minister for economic affairs, Brigitte Zypries, said: “We must avoid other states benefiting from our opening to advance their own industrial policy interests.”
Juncker was also scathing about Poland’s recent judicial reforms, which have been criticised as an attack on the judiciary, although he did not mention the country by name. Brussels has threatened to trigger a process under which Poland could lose its voting rights in the council of ministers unless it rethinks a series of recent legislative reforms.
Juncker said: “The rule of law means that law and justice are upheld by an independent judiciary. Accepting and respecting a final judgment is what it means to be part of a union based on the rule of law.” |
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The first paragraph in The Guardian report confirms that Brexit would have happened anyway. IIRC the alternative to Cameron's referendum was a cast iron guarantee that any treaty seeking closer union would trigger a referendum in the UK. I can't see the people of the UK agreeing to the Euro, a single finance minister, EU army or closer union so that would have been an end.
This is probably chicken and egg, Junker would have never been so brave to propose these fundamental changes had the UK voted in, but it's clear this is the direction of travel and IMO ever closer union is essential for the EU to succeed.
This is what Germany and France want, it remains to be seen whether countries who are feeling the pinch of EU membership will be so keen, and some, like Poland and Denmark are strongly opposed.
We live in interesting times!
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Re: the Poland thing a lot of this is as a rejoint to thier recent overhaul of their juduicial system against the will of many in poland meaning that is no longer a separate entity to politics I suspect. Also I would dance in the streets naked happily if Juncker dropped dead, there is something about him that smacks of Emporer Palpatine and his power grab in Star Wars. The point you raised re: denmark, poland and others shoews that we could have been a serious mover for pushing for reform within the EU, reform that is still required even if we are no longer part of it, how an entity that is basically unaudited can build an army that reaches nato's 2% of GDP is beyond me.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those that could not hear the music -Nietzsche
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| 14-09-2017 11:34 AM |
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Matt
V2.0
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 17728 - Threads: 847
Location: Surrey
2016 | Honourable Mention
Party Animal
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Quote:
| Quin. wrote on 14-09-2017 11:34 AM
Re: the Poland thing a lot of this is as a rejoint to thier recent overhaul of their juduicial system against the will of many in poland meaning that is no longer a separate entity to politics I suspect. Also I would dance in the streets naked happily if Juncker dropped dead, there is something about him that smacks of Emporer Palpatine and his power grab in Star Wars. The point you raised re: denmark, poland and others shoews that we could have been a serious mover for pushing for reform within the EU, reform that is still required even if we are no longer part of it, how an entity that is basically unaudited can build an army that reaches nato's 2% of GDP is beyond me.
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Yeah, I read about the changes in Poland which are obviously controversial, but does that mean the EU should get involved and restrict Poland's voting rights? Surely that's up to the people of Poland, but this is where we come back to exactly how much power the EU should wield over member states.
There are many disagreements between sovereign states and the EU, and I think I heard they want to move from the current unanimous vote/veto system to a majority vote. The idea is that more would get done but I suspect the opposite would happen, with states ganging up on others to force changes through.
As for reform, Junker's speech outlines exactly how "ever closer union" works and as I said I think this is essential for the project to succeed. It's only when members reach parity of standards, currency, financial controls, taxation, foreign and defence policy etc that they can move forward as The United States of Europe. The final stage of that process will be when children sing the EU National Anthem every morning and salute the EU flag, as they do in the USA. The project will be complete when people feel they are citizens of European first, and citizens of their local state second.
I still maintain that this is not a step the UK could or would entertain, and nor will other countries for various reasons. The freight train of ever closer union has been gathering pace, it is essential for the EU to succeed, and I'm still marginally favouring Brexit and a shake up of our making, than delays to further treaties and crashing out anyway. The only saving grace of that position is it would be the EU forcing us out, rather than vice versa, but that's a moral stance rather than practical...
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| 14-09-2017 12:55 PM |
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Quin.
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Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 33316 - Threads: 426
Location: london
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Quote:
| Matt wrote on 14-09-2017 12:55 PM
Yeah, I read about the changes in Poland which are obviously controversial, but does that mean the EU should get involved and restrict Poland's voting rights? Surely that's up to the people of Poland, but this is where we come back to exactly how much power the EU should wield over member states.
There are many disagreements between sovereign states and the EU, and I think I heard they want to move from the current unanimous vote/veto system to a majority vote. The idea is that more would get done but I suspect the opposite would happen, with states ganging up on others to force changes through.
As for reform, Junker's speech outlines exactly how "ever closer union" works and as I said I think this is essential for the project to succeed. It's only when members reach parity of standards, currency, financial controls, taxation, foreign and defence policy etc that they can move forward as The United States of Europe. The final stage of that process will be when children sing the EU National Anthem every morning and salute the EU flag, as they do in the USA. The project will be complete when people feel they are citizens of European first, and citizens of their local state second.
I still maintain that this is not a step the UK could or would entertain, and nor will other countries for various reasons. The freight train of ever closer union has been gathering pace, it is essential for the EU to succeed, and I'm still marginally favouring Brexit and a shake up of our making, than delays to further treaties and crashing out anyway. The only saving grace of that position is it would be the EU forcing us out, rather than vice versa, but that's a moral stance rather than practical...
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The Polish Judicial/Legal issue I believe goes against somepre-existing article of EU law that Poland has signed up to as part of the EU membership but I haven't got the Willpower or time to dig into atm. I am still unconvinced that our leaving the EU now and particularly with this shower of bastards in charge is the best practical apporach but that's a matter of opinion.
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those that could not hear the music -Nietzsche
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| 14-09-2017 13:28 PM |
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